u/garcon-du-soleille: enclomiphene + protein + creatine + heavy training (a no-peptides muscle stack)
I'm open to evidence to the contrary. But from all the research I've done, I can't find a peptide that grows muscle. Steroids. Testosterone injections. Enclomiphene. Protein. Creatine. Lots and lots of time spent in the weight room. These are things that actually WILL grow muscles. (Edit: none of them will work without #6.) Obviously, I don't condone or recommend steroids for anyone. I looked into TRT and personally decided against it. That's just my personal choice. However, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are all things I use. But again… Please feel free to disagree with my statement in the title. But if you do, please also provide some evidence. Thanks! EDIT #2: As pointed out in the comments, Testosterone (TRT or Enclo) + HGH + Strength Training can indeed be a great way to build strength and muscle mass. I would just note that HgH alone won't do much for you.
The author's title is half right — there are no peptides that build muscle, and the listed alternatives are exactly the stack that does. Enclomiphene + adequate protein + creatine + a real progressive-resistance program is the strongest non-AAS muscle stack you can construct, full stop. The post itself is the kind of pushback this corner of the internet needs more of: lead with what works, demand evidence, don't recommend what you don't use.
| Goal | Score | Grade | Weight | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Longevity | 85 | B | 15% | Resistance training is among the highest-evidence longevity interventions. Protein adequacy and creatine both have longevity-relevant mechanisms, even though the author isn't framing it that way. |
| Cognition | 80 | B- | 5% | Creatine has well-replicated cognitive RCT evidence (especially in sleep deprivation). Resistance training has direct cognitive benefits. |
| Sleep & recovery | — | Not targeted | — | No ingredient with a sleep-targeted mechanism. Any sleep benefit is downstream of training fatigue, not a stack outcome. |
| Energy & metabolism | 84 | B | 15% | Resistance training, protein, and creatine all have direct metabolic mechanisms. Enclomiphene's effect on endogenous T also touches energy. |
| Body recomposition | 89 | B+ | 65% | A textbook natural-bodybuilder stack with one off-label SERM. Held off the A range by lack of dose specifics for protein and training program structure. |
Ingredients (4)
Enclomiphene
Enclomiphene on peptidelist.org ↗
- Dose
- unspecified
- Mechanism
- SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) that blocks hypothalamic estrogen receptors, increasing GnRH pulse frequency and amplitude, raising LH/FSH and endogenous testosterone production while preserving fertility.
- Take
- Author doesn't state a dose — typical off-label use for raising endogenous T runs 12.5–25mg/day. Enclo's appeal versus exogenous TRT is that it raises endogenous testosterone without HPG-axis suppression: same T benefit, preserved fertility and natural production. Effects on muscle mass are real but modest compared to TRT and depend heavily on baseline T. Body-recomp use is off-label; legitimate but worth saying out loud.
Dietary protein
- Dose
- unspecified target
- Mechanism
- Adequate dietary protein provides the amino acid substrate for muscle protein synthesis; leucine specifically triggers mTORC1 signaling. Protein needs scale with training stimulus.
- Take
- Author doesn't state an intake target. The evidence-based muscle-growth target is 0.7–1g/lb bodyweight (1.6–2.2g/kg) spread across 3–5 meals. Without quantifying intake, even the most evidence-based ingredient in the stack can be sub-therapeutic. The standard error in self-reported diets is large enough that 'eating enough protein' is rarely the same as actually eating enough.
Creatine
- Dose
- unspecified (typical 5g/day)
- Mechanism
- Increases phosphocreatine stores, supporting ATP regeneration in high-intensity work; modestly increases muscle protein synthesis; has well-replicated cognitive benefit, particularly in sleep-deprived states.
- Take
- Most well-evidenced supplement in human nutrition; the standard 5g/day works regardless of timing or loading. No dose given here, but creatine is among the most forgiving supplements — it works as long as it's taken consistently. The most likely failure mode is just not taking it daily.
Resistance training
- Dose
- "lots and lots of time spent in the weight room"
- Mechanism
- Mechanical tension and metabolic stress drive hypertrophic signaling via mTORC1 and satellite cell activation; progressive overload is the dose-response variable that matters more than any other for muscle growth.
- Take
- The author calls this out as required (#6 in their list), and they're right — none of the other items work without it. The phrasing 'lots of time' is vague; the actual dose-response for hypertrophy is roughly 10–20 hard sets per muscle per week with progressive overload, 3–6 days/week, sustained for years. Without that specific dose, the surrounding ingredients are sub-therapeutic.
Risks & interactions
- Enclomiphene off-label use without bloodworkmedium
Enclo for body recomp is off-label (on-label uses are male hypogonadism and fertility). Reasonable use requires baseline labs (total T, free T, E2, LH, FSH, SHBG) and follow-up at 6–8 weeks to confirm the SERM is producing the intended endocrine response. The post doesn't mention bloodwork; users replicating without it are flying blind on whether the drug is even working as intended.
- Protein intake unquantifiedlow
Self-reported 'I eat enough protein' is unreliable. A multi-day food log plus bodyweight tracking is the cheap diagnostic. Without it, the user may be sub-therapeutic on the single most evidence-based variable in the stack.
- Creatine + insufficient hydrationlow
Creatine increases intracellular water; users who don't drink adequate fluids may report cramps. Easy mitigation (drink water), low severity. Renal function should be normal — CKD patients should not freelance creatine.
- Training program not specifiedlow
'Lots of time in the weight room' is the right intent but not a program. A user replicating without periodization, progressive overload, or technique fundamentals will spend time without proportional results. The author's own outcomes presumably reflect a real program; the post just doesn't share what it is.
Enclomiphene for body recomp is off-label and dose-response varies enormously with baseline T. Without baseline and follow-up labs, you're flying blind on whether the SERM is producing the intended endocrine response — and on whether the modest body-comp benefit is worth the cost and side effects relative to just maxing out the protein + creatine + training that the rest of the stack already nails. Cheap diagnostic for an otherwise expensive intervention.
Estimated cost
Enclomiphene runs $40–100/mo via compounding pharmacy or telehealth platform; creatine $5–15/mo at 5g/day; protein highly variable depending on whether the user supplements with whey ($30–60/mo) or hits target via food alone (~$0 incremental). Gym membership not included.